Wild and Edible plants

[MauEvig]

Since I brought up ramps in my Thunderstorms topic; I decided to make a topic to further expand upon those and other edible fruits, vegetables, nuts, berries etc. that grow in the wild.

Has anyone ever gone picking wild berries or looking for wild leeks and onions?

When I was a kid growing up in the country side of good ol' Western New York on the upstate side; I was certainly introduced to a variety of wild berries. The wild strawberries were the first things to come out, followed by other types of berries. I got to try wild strawberries, blueberries, blackberries, raspberries and even some elderberry jelly (I heard they're too bitter to eat on their own) and even choke cherries which didn't look like something you'd want to eat: Surprisingly they are edible just extremely bitter but make a good sour cherry jelly.

We also got to pick wild peppermint out in the back yard.

Later when my mom and step dad moved they found wild grapes growing in their yard and they made Jelly out of it. I'm not sure if I tried the Jelly per say but I remember they did use it in a recipe and it was pretty good. I think they found black walnuts as well.

Now I've heard of ramps and people have been telling me they're really good. I heard they're a delicacy in West Virginia. We actually aren't far from West Virginia and from what I heard they're so strong that kids are sent home from school if they eat them! I heard they are served with potatoes. I'm curious and want to try them, but I should probably stock up on some peppermint if I do!

What sort of things out in the wild do you like to pick?

What sort of plants are safe and which aren't? Things that should be avoided should be discussed as well. My rule of thumb is, when in doubt, leave it be.

I put this in the summer forums because I consider wild berries and other plant picking to be a Summer and Spring activity.

[Murfreesboro]

I've never done this, Mau, and heard of ramps for the first time a couple of years ago on a PBS show. Supposedly people eat them over in East TN. Maybe it is a mountain thing?

For the most part, the stuff that comes up wild in our yard doesn't have much of a taste, like the little wild strawberries I see. And my mother tried cooking once with wild garlic from her backyard, but it didn't have much flavor, either. Our yard is full of wild onion, which you can smell whenever you mow the grass, but I doubt it would have much flavor if I were to cook with it. I prefer to plant the stuff I want to eat from the yard so I know for sure what it is.

If you are into this, be careful about mushrooms. If you make a mistake about them you will end up dead.

[MauEvig]

Don't worry Murf, I don't take my chances when it comes to Mushrooms. I always assume any mushrooms growing in the yard are poisonous. I don't even like the fresh store bought ones anyway, I can only stomach the canned ones and only on occasion such as when I get myself a steak sandwich at the local restaurant.

That's odd though. I heard ramps were strong and had a garlic-onion like quality to them. The wild strawberries in New York are actually much sweeter than anything store bought.

It might be a mountain thing murf, but I want to make sure I identify them with the locals first who know what they're doing. I read they can be confused with a poisonous plant. I haven't tried looking for wild onions yet, but I'd like to.

Maybe it has to do with the nutrients in the soil, the location etc. A lot of factors can come into play. But I do know the berries in New York were amazing. I haven't tried foraging wild berries in Virginia.

[SIEFKA]

I used to when I was little. I ate leaves off a oak tree ones. Did not taste too good. I used to eat berries as well but to be honest I would rather not.

[MauEvig]

I wouldn't think leaves would taste all that great, and I didn't know oak leaves were even edible. Certain clovers had a nice sour taste to them, but I probably wouldn't eat them now.

I heard the bark off certain pine trees was, and you could make tea out of the pine needles; but only certain ones. Some were edible, some would make you dead quick.

Nature has a funny way of tricking you one way or the other, and I'm certainly no survivalist or nature expert. My knowledge is actually quite limited in the wild botanical side of things.

There must be something about those wild berries in New York state, because I love them. Like I said though, I haven't tried foraging for berries in Virginia, and it's been such a long time, I hope that I'd even know what to look for! I'd better bring along someone who knows the lands better than me.

[Murfreesboro]

I'm pretty sure you can eat acorns. Not sure about oak leaves, though. Sometimes one part of a plant is edible, but not another. Tomatoes are good for you, but the leaves are poisonous, I have heard. I believe tomatoes are related to "deadly nightshade," something like that. You know, in the old days, people were afraid to eat them, thought they were poisonous. That's why, because the plant is part of a family that is poisonous.

I have heard that if you are lost in the wilderness, you can watch what the birds eat. They know which berries are OK.

We have a niece who is quite allergic to cashews and so must avoid all tree nuts. Because of her issue, I read up about cashews. It turns out they are related to poison ivy, and even those of us who eat them would not be able to eat them raw. They have to be roasted to get some outer coating off them. I suppose those who have cashew allergies are just extra-sensitive to whatever is dangerous about them, so that even roasting doesn't stop their reaction.

There are so many good field guides to the flora and fauna of any particular area. You need to investigate those for your part of the country. I would recommend getting in touch with a Scout troop, too (preferably Boy Scouts, who are more serious about camping than Girl Scouts are). If you wanted to do so, you could even volunteer as a Boy Scout leader. They welcome women leaders, although most of those who do that are mothers of scouts. Anyway, just becoming acquainted with active Scout leaders in your area, and perhaps acquiring some of their books, would give you good info.

[MauEvig]

I didn't even know women could participate in boy scouts, I always thought it was a thing where only men could volunteer and women had to volunteer for girl scouts.
Honestly I didn't think Girl Scouts was all that great. Sure the cookies are good but that's about it. Even then, you can find similar varieties at the local dollar store so much cheaper, though I do buy them once in a blue moon to support their cause. My favorites are the Samoas, the chocolate, caramel and coconut variety. I don't even remember much about it. I remember being in the Parade and we had a choice of dressing up as a Cowboy or an Indian. I chose to dress like an Indian and everyone else chose to dress like a Cowboy. I didn't understand why; but I dressed up as an indian because I was proud of my Native American heritage. Of course my dad said I was "more cowboy than indian" and I didn't understand what he meant back then, but I do now. On my father's father's side my Great Grandmother was half Black Foot. I'm literally a mixture of all kinds of stuff. So I'm probably only about a 1/16th Native American. It's not much to talk about, but my aunt said I looked like an indian baby when I was born, and I can thank that indian blood for the little bit of a tan I can get in the summer. I'm still proud of it anyway, but when I was growing up I used to think I had more of it in me, and I was disappointed when I found out how little I had. Anyway, the thing with Girl Scouts was that we got to sit in a buggy and we had to sing. If we didn't sing we had to walk. It was kind of silly really; but that was the only time I ever remember being in a parade. I don't even think they heard us singing, especially since with parades you have those big loud marching bands. (Parades are another good summer topic!) I also remember going to a sleep over at the High School gym. My mom went with me. We didn't sleep a single wink, and we had lame cold McDonalds for dinner the night before. Probably the only fun part of it was going into the swimming pool because swimming is one of my favorite summer activities.

I probably would have liked it better if we did more nature oriented things. I loved going on walks on the nature trails growing up, and when my mom married my step dad, that's when I got to learn more about wild berries. My step dad took me for rides in his little buggy that he'd hook up to his riding lawn mower and down the hill we'd go. I remember making new discoveries, such as peppermint growing wild, the elder berries and the blue berries. I loved it. I think I ate more strawberries than I'd pick though, and when we got home I remember inspecting them for bugs. I have very fond childhood memories of berry picking. So even though I'm from New York, I'm very much a country girl.

To comment on the nuts, I think you can eat Acorns. I googled it quick and found this survival skills guide on eating acorns: http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/surviv ... eat-acorns

It's quite interesting.

I think the birds thing is true to some extent, but one thing to remember is that the digestive track of a bird is going to be significantly different than a human's. There may be some things they can eat that we can't. Even cats can't eat certain things that we can (and vice versa I'm sure since they are predators they are probably less likely to get sick from eating mice and other types of raw meat like we would) and they're more closely related to us on the Evolutionary family tree. Chocolate is a big no no for dogs, cats and even ferrets.

The cashews thing does make sense, but I didn't know they were related to poison Ivy. I feel for your niece though because I love cashews. It seems to make sense then that they'd have to clean them up to be useable, and perhaps that's true of a lot of nuts, like those acorns. I knew about the Tomatoes being related to nightshade though. My cousin has a severe allergy to any kind of fish or sea food.

You're probably right, talking to locals and I might even talk to my Biology Professor at Dabney about it. I don't know where I'd find scout books, but I'm sure they'd be handy. Even military manuals usually have stuff in them that is useful for knowing how to survive in the wilderness, and the internet is chalk full of information. But I'd still rather see the plants in person, so I can know what they look like with my own eyes. I don't know why but I learn best if I see the live plant.

Also dandelions are a good food source. People say they're annoying, but one could survive off those in a pinch.

On another note, since Biology is something I'm thinking about taking up a minor in, I think learning more about the local botanical stuff would be useful.

[Murfreesboro]

We are a Scouting family. Both my boys are Eagle Scouts, and my daughter is about to meet with her local Girl Scout Council to propose a Gold Award project (GS "equivalent" of the Eagle, if there is such a thing). Most communities have Scout shops. Sometimes Scouting materials will be sold in an area of a department store. If you were really interesting in getting some of their books, you could look for one of those shops in your area, or you could simply browse the 'net. I'm sure you could order something on line.

Adult women are usually the leaders of Cub Scout dens, and some women continue on into Scouting. Young women high school age (and maybe college?) can sign up for Boy Scouts "Venturing," which is designed to be co-ed. Venturing is all about outdoor adventure.

My boys were fortunate to belong to a very active troop, and they got a lot out of Scouting. My older boy went on three high adventure trips--to Northern Tier (canoeing the lakes and rivers immediately west of the the Great Lakes up in Canada); Sea Base (sailing the Gulf of Mexico for eight days, swimming with sharks and sting rays and exploring coral reefs and ship wrecks); and Philmont (hiking the Sangue de Cristo Mountains for two weeks out in New Mexico on Philmont Scout Ranch). My younger boy did only the Philmont trek, which is considered the pinnacle of the Scouting high adventure experiences here in the States. Younger son was into high school sports, so he wasn't as active as his older brother had been & didn't have as much time to devote to the trips.

By comparison, I was disappointed with my daughter's Girl Scout experience. Perhaps it is possible to have as many outdoor experiences--camping etc.--as the boys do, but the troops with whom my daughter was affiliated didn't do that. I also think the GS program is not nearly as well organized as the Boy Scout program is. For example, there is a very clearly defined path to Eagle. You have to get certain badges in a certain sequence, hold various positions of responsibility within the troop at certain times, and devote a certain number of hours to service projects at every level of the Boy Scout experience. In Girl Scouting, the badges don't lead to anything, so there isn't much incentive to do them. You move up in the ranks based on your grade at school. You can earn the Bronze, Silver, and Gold Awards without ever participating in a troop meeting. And right now, the program is built around "Journey" books, which are different at the different levels of Girl Scouting. But those books have an agenda. If you read through them, they are all about promoting a liberal feminist agenda, which is not a political perspective congenial to our family. The Gold Award project is also different from Eagle, in that the Eagle project is a leadership project. A boy gets a crew together from his troop and counts everyone's hours toward his project, which is usually finished in two or three days. But the Gold Award requires that the girl work alone. Even if she gets others to help her, she cannot count their hours toward her award. So in a way it is harder. However, the Boy Scout method is geared for training leaders. They have really thought it out.

The one thing the Girls Scouts do take seriously is their cookie sales. They are intense about that.

[MauEvig]

Murf it looks like there are some on Amazon; though I'm not crazy about their "fed ex" shipping methods.

That is quite a comparison when you think about it! Boy scouts does sound like it's more organized; and a lot more fun too! Girl Scouts definitely seems to be more lame and I dropped out of it in 4th grade. I had two different troops and only lasted about a year and a half. It also seems pretty unfair that the boys get to do all this fun outdoorsy stuff, and girls are stuck just selling cookies, and that their grades are supposed to influence how they do in scouts and stuff. Scouts should be completely separate, and not have some kind of agenda. People from all sorts of backgrounds and religious/political beliefs attend these things, and they need to be sensitive. I don't remember grades influencing me in Girl Scouts, but it seems like they push the idea that only men can be leaders. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "Liberal Feminist agenda" though because, I do consider myself a feminist; but because I feel men and women should be treated as equals. It really doesn't sound like the Girl Scout experience is equitable at all to the Boy Scout one. Boy Scouts for sure sound like more fun, and I wish I could have been part of that growing up instead of the Girl Scouts.

My Grandma used to go to this church that had a religious version called Royal Rangers for Boys and Missionettes for Girls. It never really interested me all that much; but they told me once the Royal Rangers got to have a Karate instructor come in. They let the Missionettes in there, and this little girl they told me was just ecstatic. She told my Grandpa that she didn't want to be a MIssionette, she wanted to be a Royal Ranger! In all honesty, she sounded so much like myself when I was her age. It's such a shame that so many things are separated due to gender. Plenty of girls enjoy nature walks and experiencing the wild and I think the Girl Scouts would be so much more fun if they did all the stuff you described the Boy Scouts doing.

I like the idea of this "Venturing" thing that is co-ed. It makes me wonder what I'd be allowed to do if given the reigns of a Girl's Scout troop, because I think I'd want to make it as fun and exciting as the Boy Scouts. We'd still sell those delicious cookies though. Boy Scouts get to sell popcorn and meat snacks from what I heard.

I was part of the Brownies when I was growing up. My mom didn't join scouts, she said she was part of a group called Blue Birds if I remember right.

If I volunteered for Girl Scouts; I wonder if we'd get to do all of those above things. I wonder who organizes all this stuff. I know someone who is a leader, I did my internship with her small business when I was at GCC, but she's in New York and I see her pop up on Facebook once in a blue moon. I saw a flyer at work once where they were advertising for volunteers. I have no idea how that works, or even how I'd balance work with that. But volunteering for the scouts seems like a good way to get teaching experience as well, and working with young kids. I wonder if being a tomboy I'd have more fun leading Boy Scouts though. Still, having a tomboyish leader could be the right role model for young girls who grew up tomboyish themselves, and may not have someone else to turn to that would understand how they felt in a world that's so adamant about gender roles.

Since we live in a rural community, there's also 4H. I wasn't in that; but I had a friend that was. They sold cookies too, but I think there was more of an emphasis on farms and animal care. The only animals I really have a lot of experience with are cats though. 4H is co-ed as far as I know.

[Murfreesboro]

Yeah, I think 4H is more agricultural, although anyone with an interest in that direction can join it.

I think a person could do more camping and outdoorsy stuff with the Girl Scouts, but the troops my daughter was affiliated with didn't do that.

When I said that Girl Scout advancement was tied to grades at school, I didn't mean GPA. I meant, literally, if a girl is in 9th and 10th grades, she is a Senior Scout. If she is in 11th & 12 grades, she is an Ambassador. There is no Senior Badge or Ambassador Badge to earn. In the Boy Scouts, they have ranks like Tenderfoot, 2nd & 1rst Class, Star, Life Scout, etc. You earn these advancements by what you do--how often you go camping, how many badges you earn, how many service project hours you log (which is one way the Eagle candidates can get volunteers for their projects--the younger boys need service hours so they can advance, and by helping others with their Eagle projects, they learn how to do one). Also what positions of responsibility you hold within the troop. A boy could graduate high school and still be a Tenderfoot if he hadn't participated actively in his troop. That doesn't happen in Girl Scouts. A girl advances simply by breathing. There are badges she can earn, but what she does, or if she does anything at all, doesn't matter. The badges are just "for fun." I much prefer the Boy Scout way, because they have to earn badges to advance. They have some leeway in what they choose, but if they want to be an Eagle Scout, there are certain ones they have to have. For example, both my boys earned the Lifesaving Badge (water). They could have gotten another badge about helping out in medical emergencies, so they had some choice in that. But they had to have one or the other to advance.

My daughter's advancement is tied to "Journey Books" she has worked through. (By Advancement, I mean, her ability to pursue the Gold Award.) Each Journey book has a "Take Action" project, although it is up to her what that project might be. When she was working through a book called Girltopia, she and a friend in the troop made a brief anti-bullying video and put it up on the 'net. They wrote a song and my daughter sang it. When she was working on the My Voice, My World Journey (about advocacy), she founded a Model UN club at her high school and led a group of 8 girls to a conference at Duke Univ. She'll be talking about these projects when she meets with the members of the Girl Scout Council to propose her Gold Award Project later this month.

When I said that the Journey books push a liberal feminist agenda, perhaps I should just have said they push a liberal agenda. My daughter objected to wording in the Girltopia book, because it was encouraging the girls to fantasize about what would make a perfect world for girls. My daughter said, "Why shouldn't we be thinking about what would make a perfect world for everyone?" And one of the books she rejected this past year was called Justice. You would think that book would be about advocacy or the legal system, but it wasn't. It was about environmentalism. Now, I don't have a problem with taking care of the environment, obviously. You'd have to be crazy not to want to take care of the world we all share, and the Bible enjoins people to be good stewards of the earth. But by calling this book "Justice," I thought the writers were assuming that there was something unjust about the way we are currently using our natural resources. In other words, they were casting it in a political light.

I was also disappointed that my daughter didn't seem to have the opportunities my boys had had to take those fantastic wilderness adventures. She got to take a few trips with the Girl Scouts. One time her troop visited Atlanta, and another time they rented a cabin in the Smokies for a few days. But she didn't get to do as many exciting things as her brothers had done. My older boy went to Vanderbilt, where many of the students are quite wealthy, and he was very self-conscious at first about not having taken the kinds of vacations some of his new friends had had. But then they found out how he had canoed on the rivers and streams in the Canadian wilderness, how he had swum with sharks and explored shipwrecks in the Gulf, how he had hiked the western mountains. And they were genuinely impressed. I wish my daughter could have had some experiences like that to tell.

Anyway, I was talking with my husband, who used to be extremely active in Boy Scouts, about your desire to learn more about your current locale, its flora and fauna. He thought perhaps you should investigate books about your region (there are many of those) and perhaps seek advice or guidance from specialists in your area like the Biology prof you know, or Park Rangers, etc.

[MauEvig]

Confound the internet! It's been near impossible to stay online for more than a few minutes as of late. But I digress, I'll try to type up a response!

To be honest I really liked the peanut butter and chocolate cookies 4H had better than the Girl Scouts. No kidding! A friend of mine was selling Cookies from there and I bought some. They were delicious! But you're right, I think they tend to focus on farm stuff, but I'm not entirely sure what all they do. It appears they do other stuff as well though for career preparation.

In fact, that seems to be one of the focuses of the clubs, not only to teach about nature and the environment, but for skills development as well.

Yeah my troops didn't really do that either, but it would have been nice if they had. I think the troops I was in were rather lousy to be honest. It seems like there's good and bad points to both sides, but from your description I have to agree that the Boy Scouts structure sounds far more organized and makes sense. It's better to earn your ranking than to simply have it rely on which grade you're in. Honestly, what good do the badges do if they don't count toward earning a rank? Aside from that, the different names of the badges in Boy Scouts from what I read; since this conversation sparked a bit of interest in the subject of comparing the two: The Boy Scouts sound more professional than the Girl Scouts ones do. Plus I don't like how the Girl Scouts are promoting some of the things in our culture that I don't like with regard to gender separation; namely how girls are expected to "pretty themselves up." Well, the only time I willingly wear make up is during Halloween. Or I might wear make up for a convention, but that's the point; I'm only going to wear make up if it's part of a costume. I feel like a clown putting make up, like lipstick and foundation on, or mascara. I dabbled a bit when I was a teenager; and I really don't like how it feels on my face. Sometimes I'd wear black lip stick when I was younger for a nice goth look, but lately I rather just throw on a shirt and pants. It doesn't appeal to me. I think self expression should be encouraged, not "you must look pretty for society to accept you!" What about girls who are valued for their brains, or creativity? Why must it be about looks? Once I asked on Facebook why I never seem to get the job I want. I told them I dressed up for the job involving wearing dress pants and a dress coat, and a shirt without any graphics on it, a nice clean appearance. And yet, people asked what I looked like going to the interview! I figured maybe I was doing something wrong when asked the interview questions; and I paid careful mind to how I dressed, and still I was asked that question! It really bothered me. I know I tend to not pay too much mind about what I wear as a cashier, but if it's a professional job I make sure to dress appropriately!

Oh gosh I went and ranted about this. Sorry about that. Regardless; I agree with you on the structure of Boy Scouts. There's a few religious and political views that I think I might lean more toward the Girl Scouts side on though; but that as far as I'm concerned is irrelevant. Your daughter is definitely wise and I agree with her. But how is it possible to make a perfect world for everyone, when everyone has different ideas on how a perfect world should work? My idea of a perfect world might be different from yours, it might be different from different members of this community, other communities, or even the entire world! Plus one has to take culture and beliefs into perspective. To a Christian, everyone would be devout Christians in their chosen sect, to a Muslim everyone would be Muslims, and to an Atheist everyone would be an Atheist. So how do you make a perfect world in that scenario? I think if everyone was treated fairly, and everyone followed the "Golden Rule" to treat others the way you'd want to be treated, we could aim for that. Indeed, the book you described sounds misleading, and I agree with you on the environmental stuff. I always have to kick myself because while I do have those reusable bags, I never can seem to remember to bring them with me unless I'm shopping at Aldi's.

It is a shame that your daughter didn't have the same opportunities; and I think that's sad. I also think that's the same story for girls in general to be honest. It feels like the world itself is geared toward giving men more opportunities than women. I read a girl complain about how she had to do smores in the microwave instead of on a bon fire going camping with the Girl Scouts. Honestly, if I was leading a troop, we'd definitely have to have smores the way we're supposed to. Microwave smores are when you're bored on a winter day hankering for a summer treat.

Sounds like good advice, and thanks to your husband for that. Books a Million may have some books like that, and maybe I'll keep looking online or talking to locals, or ask my Professors at Dabney about it.

Hope I didn't scare you with my mini-rant.

Too bad there isn't a "Scouts" that involves both boys and girls that get to do career skills enrichment, as well as learning about nature and the environment. I don't know if 4H does that, but I think they are co-ed.

[Murfreesboro]

To be fair, I don't think the Girl Scouts especially focuses on girls "prettying up," if by that you mean wearing make-up, etc. Now, in the last troop my daughter belonged to, the leader's daughter was interested in beauty pageants, so naturally her mom got into that, too. We would sometimes see videos of her daughter in the pageants. I remember one night I had brought a couple of magazines, because I had found a magazine my mother had saved from the early '60s, Good Housekeeping or something, or maybe Ladies' Home Journal. So I brought that one along with the current issue. I had thought it would be fun for the girls to compare the women's magazines from the two different eras. But instead of doing that, we watched a video of the leader's daughter in a beauty pageant. I guess the girls were interested in that, but I privately thought my idea would have been a more useful activity. When the troop eventually disbanded and had to spend some money they had saved up, the girls voted to spend it on a spa day at a local beauty school. I had no issue with that, but it's not exactly what you imagine your daughter might do when she enters a scouting program.

The first troop my daughter belonged to (in grade school) was more active, in part because the girls were younger, and they were perhaps more amenable to doing what the moms suggested. They did go camping once or twice, but I don't think the mothers who led those camping trips enjoyed doing it, so the girls weren't into it either. The last camping trip my daughter had was with the second troop. It was a fall camp-out, and unfortunately, it poured rain all night. My daughter was in a tent that flooded. I think the experience was so miserable for all of them that no one wanted to do it again.

The Girl Scouts celebrated 100 years three or four years years ago, and there was a big gathering up in D.C. on the Mall. My daughter's troop intended to go and raised a fair amount of money for the trip. However, it fell through due to lack of planning at the Service Unit level. In the fall, people were asked to sign up for the trip, but no one asked for earnest money. Of course, many people signed up to go, and someone reserved charter buses for all these girls from Rutherford County. But then when the time came to pay most of the girls dropped out. So not enough people were left to pay for the buses. Since a car drive out of state with other people's children is a big responsibility, the two or three troop leaders who were left (Including ours) understandably didn't want to do it. So our girls had raised money for a trip that didn't happen. It turned out OK, because they decided to go as a troop to the Smokies and rent a cabin. They did have a good time on that trip. And then, to use up the rest of the money, they had the spa day.

I guess what I'm saying is that the Girl Scout experience depends a great deal on the type of leadership you have, and the women who volunteered as leaders for my daughter just weren't outdoorsy. I couldn't volunteer to be more than a helper because I didn't have the space for the troop to meet. My boys belonged to a troop that met & still meets in an outbuilding of a local church. No one is having to offer up his house for it.

[MauEvig]

I have to admit, this entire thing has sparked a slight interest in my volunteering for a scouts program. But I'd likely pick the girl scouts because, I think I'd feel a little awkward volunteering for the boy scouts since I'm not a boy myself. Granted, I did find out that a boy scout volunteered to fix up the little girl scout house that we used to attend when I was in the program. I find that interesting, it's too bad they don't work together more often.

I talked to a friend of mine whose son was in the boy scouts program. She definitely encourages me to volunteer; and it may even help me with my anxiety issues. Guess time would tell. I would like to make myself get more involved in the community anyway, if I can just get over my danged anxiety that holds me back! She said I could probably use a community center of sorts locally, but she lives in another state than I do. I'd have to find out how it works in VA.

Sounds like your daughter's troop leaders may have been biased in favor of their own daughters. But one thing I'll have an advantage in is the fact that I don't have kids, so I think it's less likely I'll show any sort of favoritism. Plus I think more girls deserve to have more opportunities outdoors and experience the wildlife around them.

The thing is, I'm a bit limited schedule wise, and monetary wise. What kind of resources can I provide on a very limited budget? Granted, the cookie sales are there to raise money for activities right? I'm thinking it might be better to start out small anyway; maybe be an assistant to a scout leader to start with? Are the meetings generally during the week, or on weekends?

I think you may be right that it depends on the leadership. I'm sorry to hear that your daughter didn't get the most out of her scouting experience like your sons have; it sounds a lot like my own story. I also didn't last long in the scouts. I have a few memories of being in the scouts, but very far and few between, and they were always in some sort of public community center, or that "brownies house?" or looking it up online it was called the "Brookside House" a house reserved specifically for that purpose that included a playground. Sounds disappointing that they didn't get to go to the DC trip. I don't even remember ever going on a camping trip. Just that lame lock-in at the Gym. Girls kept getting up and making noise, cold McDonalds, no sleep. It was a mess. I had more fun going to a college lock in when I was older. When my parents divorced, I went to another troop and another community center of sorts, another house but I don't remember where exactly it was: my memory is way too fuzzy to remember too many details.

It might be fun though. I know I'd be a nervous wreck (especially if we did any overnight activities!), but the experience could be rewarding. Both the kids and myself would probably learn from it. And I'm a future teacher, so I definitely need more experience working with kids. Just think of all the fun activities we could do, and the nature walks I could take them on; assuming I can get to know this area a little better myself! The only thing is I might not have time for the big long trips abroad or anything like that, but when it comes to the countryside and nature there's plenty to do locally. (And maybe I'll just sneak that boy scouts manual on wild plants into a girl scouts meeting. What could it hurt for girls to know the same survival skills as the boys?)

A shame that rain could ruin a trip. Couldn't they have post poned it for a more weather-friendly experience?

(Plus I wonder if I could sneak some Halloween activities into the scouts program? )

[Murfreesboro]

I think it would be great if you could volunteer as a scout leader, and starting with the Girl Scouts would make sense. Most of the women I know who do Boy Scouts have had sons in the program, which is how they got involved. It would be easier to start with the girls, especially if you were once a Girl Scout yourself. Volunteering to be a helper would be a good way to break in--not the primary leader, but the second-in-command, you know. I know the Boy Scouts insist on "two-deep leadership"--no leader is ever supposed to be one-on-one with any of the kids. This protects the youth from possibly being victimized in some way. It also protects the adult leaders from being accused of things they did not do. If I were you, I'd try to find a troop close in age to the children I hoped to teach someday.

How often the troops meet depends on the people within the troop. Some might meet every week, others might meet once a month. Ditto the time of day or night of the week.

To be fair to the second troop leader, she is a woman I have known for a long time. She also had a son in Scouting and worked her tail off in both programs for a very long time. I think, by the time she accepted my daughter's troop into hers, she was just getting tired of it all. She had won district awards for being such an active, involved leader prior to my daughter's entering her troop, but she was wanting to turn the planning and leadership of the group over to the girls more. As the girls get older, that's what is supposed to happen. The trouble is, our girls didn't want to plan. They just wanted to visit. They really do need more adult prodding, even in high school, than she was willing to give at that point. And that's where I think the organization of the Boy Scout program is so much superior to the Girl Scouts. In Boy Scouting, the boys have to attend meetings regularly and hold various leadership positions within the troop in order to advance. They can be patrol leaders or historians for the group or leaders of the troop at large, etc. The girls don't have well defined leadership positions with specified duties. Also, in Boy Scouts, each meeting is devoted to some type of skill relevant to particular badges the boys need to earn. But, as I said, the girls don't have any badges they need to earn. It's just, do you want to earn it? There is no incentive. They do have these Journey books, which I personally find rather lame. And then, too, the second troop leader and I didn't see eye to eye on what might be interesting for the girls to do. She chose the book Girltopia for our girls to work through, but neither my daughter nor I liked it. It was so much about fantasizing how the world could be made better for girls. There was another troop at the time who were doing a different book. I forget the name of it, but they were going around to farms in the area, seeing how livestock were raised, stuff like that. Our troop leader thought that sounded boring, but I thought it sounded like it had way more content than the book she had chosen.

There also came a time when the troop had dwindled to four girls, and those four girls were in two different grades, which meant that the older girls were supposed to be working on a totally different "Journey" from my daughter and her younger friend. That didn't work out so well, having two different books going in such a small group. There was no way for the older girls to help the younger ones, whereas, in Boy Scouts, the older boys are always helping the younger ones.

ETA: Oh, about Halloween activities--sure, you could do that. When my boys were in Cub Scouts, I usually volunteered to lead the October meeting (the way we did it, which was our choice, was that each family chose one month to lead the activity). One October I took the group to a corn maze, and afterward they bought pumpkins. Another year we met at a pavilion in a park and carved pumpkins. I do recall there was one family who had religious objections to Halloween, but they fit in by bringing some sort of colored pins to decorate their pumpkin. It wasn't a jack-o-lantern, exactly, but it was how they wanted to participate, which was fine. Also the Cub Scouts have a requirement in one of their levels to learn about the history of their community , which can be satisfied by touring historic homes. There is an antebellum plantation house in the middle of our town called Oaklands, & they lead tours through it. At night you can take a lantern-light tour (because the house has no electricity), and I chose that activity a couple of times with the Cub Scouts. The house is not haunted, but a lot of the Scouts thought it was, just because it was so old.

[MauEvig]

I agree; and I remembered a couple more ladies who have done so and find the experience rewarding. I'll look into it at least; and hopefully I can reasonably fit something into my always busy schedule. Right now I get Wednesday, Thursday and Sunday off, but that might change when College rears up again. Sunday is my day to spend with my boyfriend, so Wednesday or Thursday would be better for me meeting wise, but I'm sure that can all work out when the time comes. Certainly it would be good for me to conquer my ol' enemy named Anxiety!

That's also a good idea; I plan to teach middle school age so I'm thinking children somewhere between ages 10 to 13 which is about what middle school age is. (Although I guess that means foam swords are out of the question unless I teach the real youngin's. I'm not sure what girls at that age would be interested in though. I guess volunteering would be a good way to find out!) I do remember having a girl scout book somewhere but that was a long time ago; and it had stuff to teach girls about that...time of change called puberty if you know what I mean. Not sure I'd feel comfortable teaching the birds and the bees!

My experience with the girl scouts is pretty limited though even at that, but at least I know a little about it; and I think being a helper would be the best way to break the ice. The boy scouts have a good point too, you just never know these days. It doesn't seem to make sense the structure of it all though. I wonder if I could have the girls elect a "leader" within their own troop, as a sort of voting system? When I was in the Writer's ink club, we did something like that.

Sounds like she may have just been burned out. I heard that can happen. But I agree, there should be an incentive for the girls to earn their badges. Perhaps that might take a bit of creativity and encouragement on that part, and maybe I could say something along the lines of "It's not just about the badge, it's the experience that comes with it that will be beneficial to you in life. The badge is symbolic of that experience." You know, maybe somethin galong those lines.

It would be hard if you didn't see eye to eye with the troop leader either. I don't think my mom did either, but she didn't volunteer for the scouts, she just dropped me off and picked me up. (Going to Sunday school was the same way actually. )

That does sound like a mess when you don't have a one size fits all book. I think having the older girls help the younger ones would be a good idea. Do you necessarily have to do everything by the book? I like to branch out and add some pizzazz and creativity to it all. You would think you'd want the older girls helping the younger ones out, especially when girls get older they're more likely to be baby sitting, and taking up leadership roles and trying to figure out what they want to be when they grow up. Those who especially want to be in childcare, be a teacher or another field like that would want the experience working with the younger ones. Even reading poems to younger kids like we did in Writer's Ink would be something.

The Halloween activities look like fun, and I'm sure there could be ways to compromise with the religious ones who aren't into Halloween. Being able to decorate a pumpkin however they want, whether it's carving a Jack o Lantern for Halloween, or simply decorating it to look pretty for the fall harvest season would be great. Maybe this could be an opportunity to do that can food drive where you fill a coffin as well. I like the lantern lit tours as well, and since I loved the Lexington Ghost tour, I can imagine bringing a bunch of kids to something like that as an October activity for a local historical tour. I might learn something as well, I think it's a good idea to learn about the history of where you're going to live. I know a bit of history about the property with live on, and I think the small house next to us where we did live is haunted; thankfully the ghost seems relatively benign though. October would definitely be my favorite month to lead an activity, but we shall see. If I'm a helper, I could probably suggest ideas; but I hope we don't bump heads like you did with your troop leader. Come to think of it, maybe they'd let us tour the Homestead. I heard it's not only Haunted, but it's a big part of the History of Bath County. I heard our first President, George Washington stayed there. Virginia is already rich in History, I'm sure we'd find a lot of historical things to do. (And if I can involve ghosts in it somehow, all the more fun for our favorite Spooky holiday!) The girls would probably like corn mazes too, or even a Halloween themed obstacle course like they used to have when I was in Primary school. Or a haunted hay ride. I know young kids love those! Sounds like Halloween would make a good addition to Scout activities, and out doors stuff as well! A haunted trail would be fun to go on, picking out pumpkins, this could give me ideas! Plus with the lack of trick or treaters in my area, I could probably give candy to my scouts! We could probably even make our own costumes as an activity or make Halloween decorations.